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the shino problem [May. 8th, 2010|09:20 pm]
Jin X Fuu Community


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hey guys! so i just watched episode 11 a few minutes ago. it was a long while since i last watched it, but that episode always gives me food for thought, so i thought it might be a good time to bring up some discussion in this comm (things have been kinda quiet around here, haven't they?).

clearly, shino marked a turning point in the series when it came to jin/fuu. i know for me, it was the first episode that really made me go "oh, hey, maybe..." but at the same time, the idea of jin actually falling in love with some other woman on screen seems like such a huge deal that people even use it as an argument against jin/fuu a lot of the time.

so, what do you guys think: was jin really in love with shino? why do you think she made such an impact in his life? do you think, three years after the series ended, he would've gone back for her? how are any feelings he may have had for fuu, different than the ones he had for shino?

as for fuu, anyone with eyes could see that she was jealous. but was she jealous out of simple infatuation, or were her feelings for jin deeper at that point? why do you think her reaction was so emotional?

discuss freely, but please no bashing! shino was nothing if not perfectly nice, so let's keep the discussion clean, hmm?

also, as an aside, i would like to say: the world really needs more jin/fuu fanfiction. did you know that in ff.net there are about five pages of fics that have mugen and fuu listed as main characters? five pages. that's even more than for jin and mugen, which i didn't think was possible. jin and fuu barely have one page. and that's just for the fics that actually have main characters marked at all! i can't vouch for the quality of those five pages of fics, but it seems highly unfair that jin and fuu get so little attention. we've got to remedy that, you guys! *nudgenudge* x3

[User Picture]From: samcham7
2010-05-14 08:47 am (UTC)

your question

I think he liked Shino, and felt a certain empathy with her. Given his chivalrous nature, he was bound to have wanted to help her the way he did. Regarding the Jin-Fuu relationship after that event, I think that it deepened in a very favourable way, and I have discussed my views in Chapters 6 and 10 of my novel kitsune in koshu, which is on that small list of Jin-Fuu novels you mentioned. (It is still in progress; I have written only 35 chapters so far.)At the risk of some shameless advertising, my views are captured quite well in the first couple of paragraphs of chapter 6, and I posting them below:


Jin could not pinpoint exactly when his tolerance for Fuu had turned into affection, and affection into love. Something had certainly changed the day he had told her that he was going to help Shino escape from the brothel in Hamamatsu, and that Fuu and Mugen should continue on their journey in the event he didn't return. Fuu had said that he was breaking his promise to help her find the Sunflower Samurai, and that they would never be friends again if he left.

To have said this, Jin had reasoned, she would have had to have cared very deeply for him in the first place. And he didn't miss the pain in her voice when she had asked "Are you telling me you are in love with her?" Jin had been moved; he knew that the look on her face in that moment was an image that would be indelibly etched in his memory.

There had been many moments of this type in the Jin-Fuu relationship; moments that seem insignificant or trivial to the rational mind, but are of great importance to the heart. After that incident there had been subtle changes in their interaction with each other. He had been more concerned about her needs; he would halt their journey whenever he observed that she was too tired, or follow her whenever she left their company to hide somewhere and cry. He knew that she did this when overcome with feelings of distress about the eventual parting of ways with him and Mugen. He conversed with her when she spoke to him, in contrast to his previous habit of responding in monosyllables.

Fuu, on the other hand, had got into the habit of clutching the sleeve of his kimono, sometimes for protection, and at other times for support. It seemed as if, on a subconscious level, the threat of him leaving her had an impact; she clung to him as if she would never let him go.


Well, that is kind of what I feel about the post-Shino Jin-Fuu relationship. To get a better idea, you would have to read my novel! Regarding whether Jin and Shino would get together after the three years at the Enkiri dera, I have to say that I don't think so, because in my fictional world it is Jin and Fuu who will end up together!
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[User Picture]From: princessida
2010-05-19 09:35 pm (UTC)

Re: your question

Yep, I agree with samcham7, that Jin likes Shino somewhat.
My opinions are this: I know she is nice and she needs someone chivalrous, but she can be paired off with an OC, a minor SC character, or another guy from a xover in a nice well written fic.

I usually pair off those that are "in the way" with an OC, a minor character that does not get love, or sometimes I crossover them.

Uh, I prefer to think that Shino might have found someone (after 3 years).
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[User Picture]From: girls_are_weird
2010-05-23 01:55 am (UTC)

Re: your question

Uh, I prefer to think that Shino might have found someone (after 3 years).

isn't an enkiri-dera sort of like a convent, though? or more accurately, it's like a temple. i hardly think she'd find a lot of available men in there... but of course, there's always after. and what the hell, we can just take some artistic license, lol... xDDD
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[User Picture]From: girls_are_weird
2010-05-23 01:52 am (UTC)

Re: your question

i agree with a lot of what you said. particularly that part where you mention the shino episode was a turning point for him in how he saw fuu-- he did seem to actually start seeing her more as a person and less of a job or duty.

personally, i always thought the way she reacted to his involvement with shino let him know that she actually cared about him personally, and not just as a bodyguard. he may have dismissed the jealousy angle as her usual impetuousness, but it let him know she at least cared about him in some way-- any random person could be her bodyguard on the way to edo, but she wanted to travel with him (and mugen, but whatever). knowing she cared means he can allow himself to get more personally involved with her, unlike the rest of the odd jobs he must've had since he left the dojo. it's from that point on that he actually starts talking to her and interacting with her for real, instead of just tuning her out like he did previously.

and i should say that i really, really love your fic. x3 i haven't reviewed because obviously i'm a horrible, horrible person, lol ^^;;; but i think it's fantastic-- and the jin/fuu interaction is so sweet. =3 it's an awesome fic. any chance for an update anytime soon? *hinthint nudgenudge* ;)
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[User Picture]From: samcham7
2010-05-23 04:10 am (UTC)

Re: your question

Hi girls_are_weird,

It agree with what you say, and thanks so much for saying those kind things about my fic! I am working on it as much as I can given work etc, and hopefully I will be able to put up something once the ffnet problems regarding stats recording are resolved.

Yes, I agree with what you say. Jin has a real capacity as far as falling deeply in love is concerned, and once he does he would be very devoted to that person. To me a very telling point in relation to his feelings about Shino occurs when he sees her on that bridge; he knows that she is contemplating suicide. I think he knows this because he has a very sensitive nature and his experience of having to kill his own teacher (plus maybe some other life experiences)had once put him in a similar frame of mind. Then he gets to know her and like her and is shocked to learn that she is to work in a brothel. Had circumstances been different he may have ended up with her and been happy.

But in my opinion he would have missed out on having a better relationship with Fuu. Shino, to me was a little strange about certain things. She made a statement to the effect that she would rather wait in the brothel for Jin than three years at the Enkiri dera! That was not only odd, but a little selfish; she seemed to expect that Jin would have to make a living just to support his brothel visits, and in the remaining time she would be sleeping with all and sundry! And the Jin-Fuu shipper in me was more than a little annoyed with her for insisting on sleeping with him, even when he had so gallantly offered that there was no need to!

As for the Jin-Fuu relationship after that event I agree that her reactions to his involvement with Shino were very telling. Jin most definitely becomes more concerned about her and the way she 'relies' on him after that was bound to soften his heart in her favour. (The way she runs to hide behind him in ep 13, after she has extricated herself from that fishing net is so cute!) Had Fuu been a little older during the series they might have explored the possibility of romance with either Jin or Mugen. Had it been Mugen, it would have ruined things for me, so I am relieved the way the series ended. It leaves scope for fans to use their imagination, and my imagination is heavily biased towards Jin-Fuu!

It is great to see you are making an effort to keep this community alive! Sometimes years go by and there are no posts.

seven samcham
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[User Picture]From: samcham7
2010-05-23 03:15 pm (UTC)

Re: your question

Sorry about the typo - it should be 'I agree with what you say', rather than 'It agree with what you say'! :D
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[User Picture]From: girls_are_weird
2010-05-23 02:40 am (UTC)
i ought to reply to my own questions. ;)

personally, i think jin was actually in love with shino. i know, i know, it's probably not right of me to admit it, considering i'm a die-hard jin/fuu shipper, but i just... don't see jin as the "simple infatuation" kinda guy. he's too complex for that. i normally don't believe in true love after only knowing a person for a day, but those were different times, so who knows. and sometimes when people meet under extreme circumstances and go through severe hardships together, a strong bond can develop. and jin, the man is so chivalrous, so set on the samurai way of life and all its rules and all its ideals, that it's almost like he's the japanese equivalent to a knight. he fell in love with his gentle lady; it's almost expected.

i don't know if it was the kind of love that would be forever, though. when you're young (and there i go again, sounding like i'm 80 instead of in my 20's...) you feel things so strongly-- they probably could've gone on and lead a quiet, peaceful life, because they're both even-tempered people, but i don't know... i think jin, as a samurai, as a person, needs to be completely devoted to something. to a quest, to a philosophy, to a cause, to someone. it's probably not the healthiest thing, but that's the way he operates. and i don't know if shino would be comfortable with that; she didn't seem to be, during episode 11.

it's probably one of those romances a person, later on in life, looks back to with fondness and a "i wonder if he/she's found happiness". you never really stop loving these people, but you've each made your own paths and have made peace with it. at least, that's the way i saw it.

with fuu, however, they got to know each other quite well over the rest of the episodes, and while fuu is a very independent girl, i think she has learned just how much to let herself depend on the people who care about her. by the end, she truly needed them not only as bodyguards, but as emotional companions-- it was probably part of the reason why it was so difficult to part with them before ikitsuki, because she knew, even if she didn't want them to come with her for their own safety, she still needed to have them with her; they were her support.

as for fuu herself, i'm not sure if i can pinpoint when jin went from "really good swordsman whom i tricked into being my bodyguard" to someone she started having feelings for; maybe somewhere around episode seven or eight? i think it was most likely lingering in her subconscious, actually. she had inadvertently started to become used to relying on his presence (unlike with mugen, whose behavior was a constant reminder that he could take off at any point-- oh, she hoped he'd always come back, but she couldn't really be sure, as episode nine showed), and the sudden idea that maybe jin could leave completely shook her world, and being so expressive the feelings caught up to her and bubbled out.

there's no way those feelings were superficial, given her reaction in the episode. the girl is nothing if not completely sincere! so she may not have known she had feelings for jin before shino, but she certainly knew afterwards that yes, something had shifted in their dynamics. heck, pretty sure even mugen knew that as well...

Edited at 2010-05-23 02:41 am (UTC)
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